Can you still get good results with organic social media?
That’s the big question that Ania of Ask Ania Media and I are discussing in this wide-ranging episode.
No ad budgets needed here! If you want to get the most out of your time on Instagram, this episode is perfect for you.
We’re Gonna Dive Into:
[05:07]: The importance of organic traffic and storytelling
[06:11]: What the algorithm really wants from you
[08:11]: The role of emotion in a world of AI
[11:12] The mix of content your audience wants
[13:34]: How to stop their scroll
[17:28]: How to use calls to action
[23:40]: How to drive traffic to your website and landing pages
[34:02]: The power of stories
Ask Ania Media
AAM on Instagram
AAM on TikTok
One of my favorite underrated parts of Instagram, for example, and that's stories. I feel like that's where the real conversions happen for most accounts that lead with great personal content and then sell their offers while they're there. You're listening to the Captain Coder podcast. Each week I take you through actionable strategies that can help you scale your service-based business online. I'm your host, Marisa Van Skiver, AKA Captain Coder. I cannot wait for you to hear today's incredible episode with Anya of Ask Anya Media. Anya is a social media strategist and just honestly has one of my favorite Instagram accounts around. She does not sugarcoat anything. She tells it exactly like it is. Full disclosure, Anya has been helping me with my own social media strategy over the last few months and has grown my account over 200 followers with organic only strategies. In this discussion, we're diving into all of the social media strategies that are currently working and the ones that are going to keep working into 2024 and some of the trends that Anya is seeing as she manages multiple large accounts. You're going to walk away with some really awesome actionable ideas to implement in your own social media strategy, but also the things that you need to just be wary of and know how to take people off of your social media and into your landing pages to your website so that you can actually sell them. I'm not going to talk anymore. Let's dive into this amazing conversation. Hey Anya, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited to talk all things social media with you. It is not my favorite thing in the world, but I know it's yours. I'm ready. Let's do it. I'm so excited to have a real expert on to talk about this. So tell us just a little bit about yourself. For those that don't know who you are, what do you do? How do you help your clients? Awesome. So hi, I'm Anya Briga. I am the owner of Ask Ania Media, which is a social media agency here in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. And basically we help our clients create meaningful social media content to help them grow in traffic, in leads in everything related to their business. And the main purpose of everything we do is a lot of storytelling, creating actual content that relates to their brand that really connects with their audience and really focuses on that organic traffic to their brand, their products, their services. So we've been around for about three and a half years now. So yeah, that's basically how we help our clients. That is so great. Now, you always, you've been doing this for three and a half years. Have you always been involved in social media? Great question. No. I know you have an interesting pre-social media career. I do. I lived a couple lives. So basically before I went into social media full time, I actually worked in law. I have a Juris doctor. I finished a law degree, worked at a law firm and decided that's not my pathway for the rest of my life. Before I went to law school, I did a lot of social media. I did social media in France, I did social media in Canada. So it's not foreign to me, and I've always been creative. It's just always trust. It's like, go get a real job, go be a lawyer, get all that. It's your plan B, because being a social media influencer wasn't a thing. Yeah. So that's kind of the background that I have. And back in 2020, I took it more seriously the business and then started it officially. And finally I've been doing what I've been supposed to be doing for a really long time. Oh, that is so awesome. I love hearing about people finding their creative passions. I mean, I don't think that I could have ever been an attorney. I don't think my brain works that way. But I mean, the fact that you went to school and did all of those things and you're like, no, this is what I really want to do. I mean, I think that's just awesome that you took that leap of faith. I appreciate it. And I mean, we know you're building a kick ass business, so it was definitely worth it. I love it. It's the best thing I've ever done. Hundred percent. So you are going to geek out at this next question. Let's talk algorithms because I feel like every single day, and I get really frustrated because I know this is not how this works, but every single day people are like, oh, you can't get seen organically anymore. You can't build an audience on social media anymore. The only way to build an audience on social media is ads. I mean, in your experience, can you still be seen by new people? Yeah, absolutely. It can be seen by new people. Organically, you mean? Yeah, a. Hundred percent. And ads they take you to somebody's page and then you have nothing there. How does that look like? So that's why I always believe in organic social media. It's the storytelling, it's the personal content. It's the reason why we are on social media is to make connections when we're scrolling through. And I really, really believe in that type of marketing that really touches you a little bit in the soul. And it's not just like, here's my product, buy it. It's like, how does this quality feel? Why do I need it? So not sure if I answered your question. You asked about algorithms. There's not just one algorithm, let's say on Instagram. There's so many of 'em. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the other thing that a lot of people misunderstand. And this gets into technology that even as a programmer, I don't program algorithms, but I mean, at the end of the day, there's multiple pieces to this puzzle that they're putting together. Yeah, exactly. And you know this too. It's not just one algorithm and the algorithm's there to help you. I wish more people talked about the algorithm in a positive way. It helps us get the content we really want to see. When you're on your page, do you see weird stuff there that shouldn't be there? Probably not. All I see is, oh. Yeah, yeah's algorithm is way too accurate. And it's really, really disconcerting times. The for you page. Yeah. Yeah. And I know that's actually been talked about a lot, whereas Zuckerberg, and they really want to employ, they really want to steal TOS technology and their algorithm because they know it's serving up what their customers want. It's content we want to see. And I think a lot of people forget if the algorithms like, so. Okay. How many times do you hear people complain about being shadow banned when they're not getting any reach? All the time, every day. Oh my gosh. In my dms. And I'm like, first of all, there's no such thing as a shadow ban. You just went against the community guidelines and is stopping your content from moving in the algorithm. Maybe it's bad content. I know nobody can hear that. Exactly. I feel like a lot of people don't understand. They're like, oh yeah, I'm bad. I'm like, whatcha you putting out? So it's tough love when people are like, well, nobody sees my content anyway. Why should I post on you? This is just Instagram in 20 23, 20 24. It's tough. And it's like, how are you going to be different? You understand that there's actual marketing machines on these platforms with teams of 50 people running one Instagram account, and you're going against that. How are you going to do different or better? You can't do better. You could do different. And you can be more human. And I think a lot of us forget about that part too. So true. In the world of ai, where's the emotion? Where's the humanity in everything we do? Yeah. No, I mean, I just, this, I don't want to call it an epiphany, but I mean, I had this thought this morning, even in my own social media content, which I know that you give me some guidance with and I've forgotten about. I've been so focused on my own. They've gotten excited about a couple of things and so focused on me that I've forgotten about. What are the people following me? What are they feeling? Yes. What fears are they facing? And it's not fears about working with me, it's just their fears in general and their frustrations and their pain points and their problems. And I think that's the other thing. I was listening to a podcast and she was like, you have to have remarkable content. And it's like, okay, well what does that mean? And really all it means is you have to be able to speak as a human to the other person on the other side of that screen. Exactly. And no amount of chat, GBT will get you there if there's nothing there to begin with. And whenever I talk about personal content to my clients, everyone's like, no, no, I just want my business out there. This is my business. And it's like, well, you have to look at it another way. Why would people connect with your business if you on there? What does your brand stand for? What. Are. Values? What are those key assets? What do you donate to? What are the reasons that people should follow buy from you if you don't put your face on there, if you put your face on there, I think it's also much easier. People see a face, they connect to it. It's a person. Yeah, you're real. You're not a chat GPT run account. Exactly. And the algorithm algorithms, there's many of them are getting really good to find chat two BT generated content on platforms. But then again, you have people like Zuckerberg who created an AI Instagram account. Not sure if you saw that one. Oh gosh, no. It's really creepy and it looks real. So it is tough to know what is real, what is not these days on social media. But the main way we know that is with personal stories, when you share personal stories, they are real. Most people don't make them up. Right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's even been hard. There's been a lot of discussion, especially with Instagram and Pinterest, where we kind of curate and cultivate those best versions for people. So how can someone break that mold? How would you recommend they, do you recommend they do the curated or do you recommend they do more of the real? What do you find works best for your clients? So for TikTok, the real, pick up your phone and talk to it. That's it. That's what you need to do on TikTok, do the dances, do the trending stuff that works best. And when you're funny, the chances of that going viral are huge. Right? Instagram, it's a little bit different. We have a mix of static and video content. Static content is basically content that doesn't move. Like single images, single graphics, carousels and videos are generally reels. What works? A mix of content, educational, I think I call them, or educational, educational and entertaining. Edutaining. See, I can't even get it right. Edutaining ones. If there was one genre, I guess of type of content or one content type or pillar, I would say the Edutaining ones perform best overall across the board. And we post like 170 reels a month, 170 videos a month. So that's what we see as performing best. Yeah, because I mean, honestly, when you think about it, why are you on social media? Yeah. You're not there to get sold to. I mean, we all complain about that. So you have to make it slightly entertaining to get people to even pay attention. Attention span is so small. Oh no. I joke about it, but I think TikTok ruined our attention span even more. That's a good point. It's a good point. I mean, you just got used to having that dopamine hit every 30 seconds. That's really hard to compete with. That is true. That is true. What does that mean about us as a society? It just means that you need to get our attention even faster and quicker. So what businesses are finding is that they want to use social media and they post all these beautiful photos of beautiful graphics and people are like, great. Looks pretty. But where's that connection? And you make that connection with a lot of video content, personal content. That's what's working these days into 2024. And is there a way to structure that edutaining content, or is there a way to get somebody's attention right off the bat? How do you stop their scroll. That hook? The first thing you say in your video content is the most important thing. Most marketers agree with that rule in marketing video, short form video online. I don't know what you think. That first line, that hook, here's how you x, y, Z. Here's why I stopped X, Y, Z. That gets people in, right? Yeah. I mean, we have to be able to, you have to give 'em a reason to stop and not scroll past unless it's your mom. Well, yeah. And even. Then, I don't know if my mom watches all my stuff. Hi mom, mom, we love you. But yeah, I mean, I think the hook is really important. And are there simple templates that you can recommend to people? What are you finding that's really easy to replicate or give some examples? Even of hooks, you talked about this is why I stopped doing X, Y, Z. Would you put some of that information up front and then dive into the bulk of the post or? So I have a favorite structure right now when it comes to original audio content. So like you talking to the phone to camera first is a one sentence, then you introduce yourself, then you tell them the answer to that question or that hook or whatever, get into it. And then you always end with some type of call to action. If you don't tell people what to do, they'll do nothing. Yeah. I mean, that's so true. I mean, it's like, great, thanks. Swipe. Bye-Bye. Right? That's one of my favorite ones right now. I. Love that. I love that. And why do you think it's important to introduce yourself? Noticed that trend? What do you think it is about that trend that's working? It's very, very fast, quick information, and the way you introduce yourself is important too. It's that elevator pitch, right? Hi, my name is Anya. I own a social media agency in Toronto. Thanks for being here. Or Hi, I'm Anya. If you haven't met, I do this and that, and that's it. And move on to the actual purpose of the video. People then get to know you like the video follow, because they see a real person, they see a name, they see a face. And I think too mean, so from what I understand of reels and how everything works, the reels, the short form video, that's where you're going to get your colder audience. There's going to be less likely, I think it's more likely to reach new people through short form video. Would you say that's true? Absolutely. So it's really important for us to introduce ourselves to those people because you're inviting them into your space and trying to get them to stay there. And introduce yourself all the time. Nobody sees all your content, and you're totally right. Static content is great for conversions, the single pieces of content or carousels, conversions, but the reels, they reach that cold audience. They're pushed further in their algorithms to reach that cold audience and bring people in. That's why reach is always high on reels. So definitely, you're totally right. That's how different pieces of content work, for example, on Instagram. No, I love that. I mean, I think that's important too, to keep in mind is the different types of content we're creating potentially have different purposes and even different audiences. Exactly. Exactly. Totally. Awesome. So that's a lot of ways to get new people to see your content. What do you do when you have them? You talked about giving them calls to action. How often should you be ending a post with a call to action? I love this question. It's my favorite. So I believe in the double CTA strategy. I don't know who coined it. I've been doing it forever. If you look at every post, I have two calls to action. One is a sales call to action so people know always how they can buy from me. And the second call to action is engagement. And I call the stupidest question you can ask, the simple stupidest question you can ask that anybody can answer. So you get people engaged and nobody's like the calls to action are important. And the last engagement one can't be like, should you hire a social media manager? What do you think? Right. Nobody answers that question. Do you like memes? Right? Do you like memes? Everybody has an opinion on memes. I mean, I communicate largely on memes and gifs. That's a language these days. Is it gifs or gifs? Look. Please tell me the. Guy. I say it both ways. Depends of the day. I mean, the guy that created 'em calls them gifs, but because it's linguistically, it should be gifs. So I could back and forth. It's kind of like soda and pop. I am smack dab. I'm in Kansas, so I'm in the middle of the United States, and it is hilarious because my mom is from Utah. She says soda pop, but I know a lot of people here who say pop or soda, and so it just kind of depends on what I say. So it just goes back and forth for me. Like, okay, linguistically it should be gif. He says it's gif, and he created them. Oh, we should probably listen to him. He would think, but also I'm an English nerd, so it's a hard battle for me. But yeah, no, I think that's a great way to ask a question that people want to answer because frankly, I mean, if you were to stop and comment on, you have to have a really good reason to stop and comment. Yeah. And another reason why I do suggest a double CTA format is because people are, or even businesses are like, well, how much selling should we do versus value content? And it's like you can actually sell in every single post in the caption, every single post. Nobody's offended by me selling in every post. No one, I'm not losing followers or my business isn't destroyed because losing because I'm not using a call to action that also tells people how to buy from me. I think that's a good point because I mean, I don't know how many times I forgot to tell people how to work me. They sit there and they go, well, what do you do? Website should be in your first keywords. And it's just like, and how can I hire you? Nobody should ever have to answer. That. Question. Make it so easy. And I think I used to say 30% salesy, and I still say 30%. Super salesy, 30% value, 30% entertaining. Nice rule of thirds. But I think too, that doesn't mean you can't have a call to action. That's a sales call to action. Because at the end of the day, if I've entertained, maybe you want to work with me. Exactly. Exactly. And if you go viral, people actually know what to do, right? Yeah. It's Here's a random question that I asked about your thoughts, which is crazy. Yeah, yeah. I know. It's so funny. I tell people all the time with their websites, I'm like, okay, we get to the bottom of the page now. That's how I describe calls to action. Like, okay, they got to the bottom of the page. What do you want them to do? And I think that part is so important. And it's the same on social media completely, because you have to tell them what you want them to do. Because despite my dreams and wishes, people are not in our brains and they cannot read our minds and anticipate our needs. Absolutely. And I like that parallel between the websites and social media. If we don't tell them what to do, they'll do nothing, because that's exactly what we're encouraging. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great point. Now, I have heard a lot over the years that, how do I put this nicely, Zuckerberg and the others don't want us to take people off of their platforms. So. If you want to sell in the CTA, is it possible to get them off of social media to sell them? Is it possible to get them off of social media to sell to them With the Link bios? Yeah, with Link and bio or, I mean, there's been a lot of comment, chat bots. Those have come back into fashion. Those are not new. I just see a lot more people using them. They're like, oh, this is easier. But do you feel like those posts get hidden at all? Do they get a lot smaller reach if you're asking people to go off the platform? Well, that's all we do. 90% of what we do is tap that link in bio to download this freebie, get on this website, see this video. Even if we use the chat bots, yes, it's in the dms. It sends you a link in the dms that somewhere else. So Instagram is not a website. Instagram is. Some people think it is like your storefront website. We can argue that back and forth, but I. Mean, you're not getting no argument from me. No, it is. It's definitely not. Of course, of course. I don't think people get in any way Shadow Bend or anything like that for saying Link Bio. I think whoever's selling on the app, same with TikTok, same with Pinterest. It all leads off apps. So the more time you can keep people on the apps using content, eventually they're going to leave and go buy something off of it. The product tags on Instagram and some services that you can sell with the product tags hasn't been huge success for Instagram or TikTok. I still feel like sending them to an actual website, they get a better experience on app. What a surprise. So it's kind of crucial to get off these apps, whether we're hit for them. I. Don't want to mean there was a time, I don't think they do this anymore, but Facebook tried to set up calendar appointments for you a few years ago, and I'm pretty sure those are totally bulldozed now because they didn't really work. And I mean, to me, the danger is it's still the app. You're still on Instagram's controlled space or Facebook's controlled space. I mean, Facebook even will, if you open a link on the mobile app, it'll keep you within the app using their browser connected to the app. And I don't know if part of that is to get around some of the iOS 14 privacy updates, but it keeps you more connected to their app, which of course they want to do. But at the end of the day, they understand that people are using their prop for business. And I think that's where a lot of people maybe don't understand. Facebook has a Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, they all want the businesses to succeed if the businesses leave the ad dollars leave. So it's not like they're out to get us. It's them trying to find the right balance too. Absolutely. You're totally right. We don't want that money to leave. It's the ads that are paid. And now verification. Verification is verification. Let's take a sidestep. Is that something, because that's just launched to businesses, I'm actually getting harassed right now to add that. Is that something that you think is valuable for people to do? I now recommend getting it for all of my clients, everybody who has a business account, and we're actually drafting an email this week before there were some issues, like an Instagram would post your driver's license on your profile. Nice. So I was like, no, no, let's wait until they fix all these bugs. But I actually have issues with getting my own verification. They don't want to verify me. It's not the same name. I have a different legal name than I'm using. It's not that different. It's Anna versus Anya, but they won't verify me. So for a business account, there's a lot of considerations. Let's say it's a law firm. The law firm doesn't want to have their photo, that one lawyer's photo in the profile photo, and that's required for verification right now. Right. Interesting. Yeah. So it's really geared more towards, I would say, personal brands than it is professional services, which you can have a personal brand, you can have a legal partner who is kind of known. I've seen those, but it's more rare in that context. So those requirements are a little bit odd. And then you need your first name and last name and the keyword line. It's like a waste of characters, right? Because that's searchable, right? That's SEO. Yeah. My last name is irrelevant to people. Yeah, I mean, my last name is a lot of characters, so I'm just like, oh man. Yeah, I get you. I ask Skyr, that takes up so much space. I used to run out of space when I was filling out forms. So it's available. Yes, we should do it because technically you're going to get better service if you have an issue. And that is important with the amount of hacking going on these accounts. And the amount of just issues in general with Facebook and Instagram. I love that you have to pay for customer service with Facebook. I'm sorry, meta. Yeah. X Twitter, meta. We don't know. We just live in this universe. Yeah, I know. Every time I talk to anybody who's like, I don't need a website, I have social media, I'm like, a billionaire could just buy that and tank the whole platform, right? Then call it something totally different. It's happened once. It very much couldn't happen again. Exactly. Oh man. Oh, that's good to know. Okay, let's go back to calls to action. Calls to action. So what are some ways, I mean, there's various mean, Instagram is our biggest hurdle because obviously it doesn't really allow links. TikTok is kind of the same. So what are some ways that on a social media platform like that, where you can't just drop the link in the comment and have it work? What do you see typically works to actually get people to get the link. Drop CTAs? So that's the ManyChat style. Drop a word and we'll do this. Right? So that works with delivering a link. I like the personal approach as well. Send me a DMM and I'll send you a link, like a personal dmm. One of our clients refuses to use ManyChat and I really support it. She could send a personalized message to every person who wants her training, and guess what happens? She books out her program Technology is great, but that personal touch I think is also important. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I've been experimenting a little bit with money chat on a couple of things, and that has been nice. But then I had a bunch of people, I had one of my clients mention me on their social media and it sent tons of people to the page and doing the comments expecting automatic replies. I'm like, oh, I do like to do this personally. But it was fine. I was able to very quickly respond and make sure that they got the link and all of them signed up for the list, and then I could personalize it just a little bit. And it's not just the same. Oh, thanks, here you go. Yeah. Exactly. Just a little bit of tweak I think is a good blend too. If you have one that you're really trying to promote, then maybe keep some that are really personal and AB test it. AB test it, which one works better? Which one leads to something else than just downloading that freebie? So ManyChat is cool. AI is cool, but what's really cool is there are human connections still. Yep. Right? And that's why I like smaller accounts just around, I don't know, a couple hundred followers to up to 20,000, they're still able to have those more personalized connections versus really big accounts that so much traffic, so many people, so keywords, they have to keep track of you just for the masses, right? Well, and even just the amount of people to respond to comments, then you lose the ability to respond to every single comment because maybe you're getting hundreds a day. You have to hire D, it's no longer personal. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean feel like, I mean, I know it's necessary when you get to, certainly it's not like you don't want to grow to a certain point, but at the end of the day too, it is nice to have that little bit of a personal touch. Absolutely. Absolutely. I totally agree with you. Awesome. So on Facebook for instance, or LinkedIn where we can share those links, do you recommend just dropping those in the post, or is that link in the first comment? Because I've seen that a lot on Facebook lately. I think you can do either. I think asking people to do an extra step to get a link is creating more barriers than necessary. So I wouldn't do it in the first comment. I don't understand giving people, not giving homework and being like, here's your homework. Go find it in the comments when there's like 60 comments, right? Maybe it's pinned to the top. Great, but extra steps on social media, not your best friend. Yeah, I think that's a really good, really good to keep in mind because for a lot of people, I mean, think about how we all use social media. We're scrolling, we're just trying to get the information we need. It's not like we want to do a lot of work and effort to go download your freebie. We barely want to put in our name and email address. So keeping it really, really simple. Helps. Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you. Now, is there anything else that would driving traffic from your social media channels to your website, to your offers, is there anything else that you see that works really well. In terms of content or engagements? I think honestly, probably a little bit of both. It's a very broad question. I know. And on Instagram, do the link stickers really work or is it more about the content that you're providing, that kind of thing. What do you think is the magic trigger that gets somebody to take action and leave to go follow you? What's the magic thing? I don't know. But when you were talking, you think of one of my favorite underrated parts of Instagram, for example, and that's stories. I feel like that's where the real conversions happen for most accounts that lead with great personal content and then sell their offers while they're there, if that makes sense. I think that stories, once you get people from your reels to a cold audience, to your reels, the reels encourage people to follow you. They see your static content, they're converted, all the objections are already talked about. Then they start following you in your stories. You start showing off your dog, your morning coffee, your work, working from bed, doing all the things. They get to know you. And when they offers out in stories, there is not a second. You don't need to go back and see like, oh really? Do I want this? It's like Anya's talking about an offer right now. It's this cool course she just released. I'm just going to get it right there and it's going to disappear within 24 hours. I don't know if it's still going to be there. Right? Yeah. Because they know the story is going to disappear, so they don't necessarily know what the I like that. That's a good point. So I find stories still being super underrated on all platforms, and obviously TikTok doesn't have the same stories that Instagram has, and that's a huge pro to having Instagram. Are those stories? Oh yeah, that's a great point. I mean, LinkedIn tried to do stories and of course Snapchat still exists and TikTok kind of sort of has stories, but I do, I feel like the stories on Instagram are super powerful and it just, it's where I get the most engagement. I get likes, I get comments. A lot of times people are commenting about the ridiculous of my husky, but that's why I post pictures and videos of him in there because it's funny. And it lets you know what my daily life is, which is arguing with a dog. I have one funny story like that if you want to hear it. Yes, please. I used to do this ridiculous thing and refill Nespresso coffee pods. Oh yeah. After you use them. I used to put in coffee and then put a sticker on, I don't know, because I was saving a whole 12 cents. It's more environmentally friendly. That's what I keep saying. I was like, I care. Okay. So I used to do that in my stories mainly to save money, but also the environment. I used to do this for a couple of weeks. I kid you not, how many people still remember when I used to do that? And we'll talk about it to me at a random time when they see me, they send a dmm, do you still refill espresso pods? This was 2021. Yeah, it's a connection. It's a real connection that you're creating. There you go. Yeah. Try to explain. When I adjunct and I teach and I teach basic social media strategy, and the idea of the stories is where the personal happens. And it used to be that was your behind the scenes. But I think now that's That's where you can be 100% human. Yes, yes. What's going to drive people to connect with you? Because they see, I mean, we want to know who you work with. We want to understand them. We want to make sure we have a good vibe with them and that we get along with them. And especially if you're hiring a service, when I came and I hired you, I was like, okay, I need to make sure that I not only believe she can do it, because I see that you can do it, but I'm like, I need to make sure we vibe because if I have to talk to you all the time, I'm going to need to like this interaction. Yeah, exactly. Do we vibe? Do I like her? It's just that simple of a connection. Yeah. Yeah. Thank goodness. I like you. I know. I'm just kidding. I mean, it's just, you're so lovable. It's just. It's easy to get along with you. And I wish, well. It's because I am delightful. No, I'm kidding. It's one of my favorite things to say about myself and that I could ever say it with a straight face. Well, you're also an agency owner, so you it. Right. Some things that I'll say to you, you'll be like, yeah, I get it. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, it's nice to be able to speak the lingo just a little bit too. That helps for sure. Totally. Awesome. Well, let's wrap up here. Is there anything else? I mean, let's talk Instagram. Is there anything that you're seeing that you wish people would stop doing? There's one thing that's giving me the ick are those reels that give you one sentence and then read the caption. No context, it just one random six words, and then some type of smiley face or little pose here, and then read the caption and nothing else. And the fact is, the caption doesn't always answer the question. It's just the scroll stop. I'm like, how is this going viral? How are these pieces of content performing? And they are mainly because people are staying on the app, right? Because they're like, what the hell is she talking about? Where's the answer to this random question that's above her head and then disappears? I love that perspective because I mean, the thing is, no, I understand some of these negative things. They can drive engagement, but you're not going to get sales. You're just going to piss people off. And I don't think that's what we want to do. Exactly, exactly. And the only other thing that I would say about Instagram, TikTok, Instagram is predicted to increase its users by 50 million in 2024. TikTok is going to increase its user base by 8% in 2024. This is not going away. None of this is going away. This is just going to get bigger and bigger. Maybe we'll see a new social media app that takes off as well. So take your Instagram seriously. If you're running a business, get a great website. So you have people have somewhere to send people to. Right? Yeah. You can't convert them on Instagram. You need websites, right? You need landing pages. Maybe not from the start, but you definitely need something professional looking if you're an actual business. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy to me how many people think that they can get by on just social media. And I'm like, that's great. Until. Instagram goes down for two days. That literally happened the week one of my digital marketing classes started, and I was like, and this proves my point. Do not put all your eggs in one basket. Yeah, your own website can go down. That does happen, preferably not for two days, but I mean, that can happen. So you want to make sure you have multiple points where people can find you and reach you. Absolutely. Great points. Totally agree with you. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people find you and follow along? Please follow along at Ask Anya Media on Instagram mainly. And my name is spelled ANIA. My website is ask ona media.com. Hopefully you're able to fix it one day for me. Please. Please let me. Please do soon. So yes, so please follow along. I generally share free social media advice on my socials. I like to connect with people. I refilled Nespresso pods, all the weird stuff in my story. So let's hang. Up. I really love the drone video the other day, and knowing that you crashed it a few seconds later was even better. And I was just complaining about the walls, how they're so dirty. And then there's an entire thing on the ceiling from the drone. It's like orange. The propellers are orange a little bit. Oh no. So yeah, so everybody told me to not fly in indoors. You know what? But that was fun. It. Was so much fun. I got no footage, but you know. Test drove it, and that's important. That's true. That's true. Awesome. Well, we'll include those links in today's show notes. Please go give Anya a follow. She puts up great content, especially on Instagram, so definitely do. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. If you loved our episode today, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or share this with an entrepreneur friend of yours who needs to hear it. Now. If you have questions about today's episode, reach email@example.com. That's CAPT coder.com or on Instagram at Captain Coder. Thanks so much for tuning in and talk to you next week. I.